SFP: Illinois residents know, our state has such a terrible record of political corruption and dysfunction. No one really knew what to expect when [Pritzker] entered the fold, running as this billionaire who didn’t really present immediately as progressive—then, after being elected, he’s shockingly progressive. He abolished cash bail, erased a billion in medical debt, bolstered abortion rights, and legalized marijuana. He didn’t have to govern this way. It’s a fairly blue state, he could have maintained his power and influence just by being a middle-of-the-road, business Democrat, and that’s not how he decided to govern. So, he stoked a lot of excitement among a lot of different people, and we found a way to come together and be excited about this shockingly good Illinois leader and have fun online.
NWP: To echo that, part of our vision for a “big boy in the White House” is about, let’s get someone this effective to Washington. Of course, we’d be very sad to lose him in Illinois though, and I’m hearing a lot of that.
What is “Nomadic Warriors for Pritzker,” by the way?
NWP: So when Socialists for Pritzker, Libertarians for Pritzker, Frat Bros for Pritzker, everyone started making their accounts, I thought it was really funny, but saw pretty much every ideology and group was already spoken for. I was like, “What’s left?” I studied Central Asia and Central Asian religious history, so I thought a group like “Mongols for Pritzker” or “Nomadic Warriors for Pritzker—I was like, “What’s the most far out thing that I can do?”
How do memes and shitposting function (or not function) as a real-world strategy to get someone like J.B. Pritzker into the national conversation and the veepstakes?
NWP: So much of the conversation within politics, media, and the arts, can originate online, from certain subcultures, from Twitter. So shitposting funny memes is a way to influence. It becomes a way to get it into the bloodstream of the nation, create viral posts that not only are speaking to something funny and fun and unexpected but also just get his [Pritzker’s] face out there.
SFP: I see it as like earned media versus paid media. You know, J.B. Pritzker is never going to have trouble with paid media, right? It’s a lot harder to fake or buy organic enthusiasm that people just have a lot of fun with. I’m very jealous of the Nomadic Warriors for Pritzker angle, because it’s getting people to talk and joke about the governor of Illinois in a way that’s just about how he’s funny, just as a person, likable as a person, positioning him as this warrior from Central Asia from centuries ago.
That’s the best thing you can do as a politician, is have people just kind of laughing and joking about you and thinking you’re like, a funny guy, and have positive associations in a way that has nothing to even do with politics. The politics comes second. Then they start reading about what he’s done as governor, and they’re like, “Oh, that’s great,” but first you just have to introduce people to politicians through this more lighthearted angle.
Tell me about coconutbigboy.com—the name of the website, the response to it so far, etc.
FBP: When I was trying to come up with, like, the fake website name for a Harris-Pritzker campaign, I was like, “What are the two most synonymous terms with each of these two?” If you’re politically terminally online, a coconut tree and a big boy, right?
LFP: I thought, this website is $12 per year. I bought it, and I just slowly developed the site over the course of two hours. And I’d say it’s been fairly effective. We’ve had thousands of people go to the website and it’s not even been live for 24 hours yet. The thing that threw me off the most was seeing hundreds of people who have come from outside of Twitter, people have been posting it on Facebook and Reddit and other places like that.
Let’s talk about what we’ve been seeing with Kamala Harris and the coconut tree meme for the last few weeks. Is this helping her case to top the ticket and/or beat Trump?
SFP: I think these internet bits are incredibly helpful to her. I think in 2020, the internet didn’t really love her too much because they were mostly engaging with her as a politician and her policies which weren’t what they wanted. But in light of the present dire situation, people are able to, like, sublimate, maybe some of their thoughts about what the ideal presidential candidate would be, and just more go with the flow of what’s funny. And I think you see that with a lot of very avowed left-wing people who, on a substantive level, really just want anyone who can beat Donald Trump. That is the big concern, and Joe Biden can’t do that. It might happen to be Harris, then you push some of that substance away and ride the wave of, “Oh my god, funny coconut memes,” or the ‘context’ bits, the Venn diagram video. Then you’re having fun with it, that might make you like the politician way more because of all this funny stuff people are saying.
FBP: In a weird way, this online K-Hive faction is actually doing a real, tangible thing through satire, kind of raising awareness of who this person is.
These are unprecedented times. Is there anything from history that suggests someone can be memed onto a presidential ticket?
NWP: When I think of someone being memed onto a presidential ticket, first I think of Trump, who had all these shitposters from 4Chan barfing out weird memes about him. But when I think about it more, a meme is just like an idea or phrase or image that spreads by imitation, holds some symbolism and meaning. Every presidential race has sort of been won on memes, whether it was Ben Harrison in the 1880s, rolling around the giant ball. There’s all these behaviors and symbols that have always been used as ways to consolidate parties and people, turn them into foot soldiers for democracy. If you look at the RNC, you have people wearing ear bandaids—that’s a meme, a behavior spread by imitation to show resilience or loyalty to Trump.
The other thing that’s really interesting is how a meme changes over time. So much of this coconut tree, “I’m coconut-pilled,” it’s started as a joke. But the joke has become a much more serious statement. That’s the power of memes, when you start imitating something, even ironically, you become what you pretend to be.
What is the case for J.B. Pritzker over any of the other names—Pennsylvania Gov. Josh Shapiro, Kentucky Gov. Andy Beshear, North Carolina Gov. Roy Cooper, Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg—that are being floated right now?
NWP: Size.
FBP: Well, he’s a big boy who’s done big things. He’s made big changes. He’s got big pockets. He’s got big influence. He can do the same for a big nation.
NWP: I’d add, that he speaks clearly to the stakes of what reelecting Trump would mean. He can really articulate what we’re up against. Kamala would be a great messenger, and it’d be great if we could have two very effective messengers of the stakes on the ticket.
LFP: He’s made a lot of change really successfully in Illinois. He can really push back on the establishment, he’s really willing to push to make changes.
SFP: I’d say we’re seeing a lot of centrist Democratic white men being floated because there’s this idea they should balance the ticket with Harris on sort of identity grounds, who’s going to be seen as innately very radical because of who she is as a nonwhite woman. It’s very essential to push back on the idea of just slapping some more conservative Democrat on the ticket. Josh Shapiro, Andy Beshear, they’ve all been very effective as Democrats in purple, red states, but it’s important to remember you’re going to be uplifting that individual as vice president who’s probably going to run for president in the next four or eight years. Of course, you should want the running mate to be popular, and represent a geographical region you need. But it doesn’t need to be the most conservative white guy you can find. We can actually put someone who can inspire and has a strong record and still fit the bill of representing regional interest, someone who can unify a lot of people.
J: Well, he unified socialists, libertarians, frat bros, and nomadic warriors.
SFP: Exactly.