After HBO aired the second part of the highly controversial Leaving Neverland Monday night, the cable network broadcast a one-hour discussion featuring Wade Robson and James Safechuck, whose abuse allegations regarding Michael Jackson were the documentary’s subjects. Also in attendance was Leaving Neverland director Dan Reed. Oprah Winfrey moderated the discussion in front of a live audience of over 100 child sexual abuse survivors.
Winfrey said she was interested in hosting this after-show special, titled After Neverland, because of the documentary’s frank discussion of abuse and the grooming that often comes with it—she said she felt the documentary transcended Michael Jackson. She recalled a discussion with Reed in which she told him, “Dan you were able to illustrate in these four hours what I tried to illustrate in 217 [episodes of The Oprah Winfrey Show],” referring to the hours and hours of television she taped on the subject of sexual abuse.
Winfrey asked Robson and Safechuck some tough questions about their previous public denials of Jackson’s misconduct. Both provided statements supporting Jackson in his 1993 case (that was eventually settled out of court) when Jordan Chandler accused him of molestation, and Robson testified for the defense at Jackson’s 2005 criminal trial. She wondered what their understanding of the abuse was from a morality perspective.
“I didn’t think of it as good or bad,” said Safechuck, referring to his decision not to testify in the 2005 criminal case. “It was that old sort of wiring of, ‘If you’re caught, your life will be over.’ And so I’m in my mid-20s and I’m just trying to start a life. So then to be thrown into that, it was just too much to handle. When I said no, I wasn’t trying to do the right thing. I was just afraid. It was self-preservation.” Safechuck appeared to be disturbed and struggling throughout the hourlong conversation.
“I had no understanding of it being abuse,” said Robson at another point in the special. “I loved Michael, and all the times that I testified and the many, many times that I gushed over him publicly in interviews or whatever it may be, that was from a real place. While never forgetting any of the sexual details that happened between us but having no understanding that it was abuse, having no concept in my mind that anything about Michael could ever be bad. Anything that Michael did was right to me for so many years.”